Highly unlikely claims by KeyBanc Capital Markets analyst Andy Hargreaves were cited in today’s report by the investment publication Barrons, alleging that Apple has “just weeks” to decide whether to put a Touch ID fingerprint sensor under the cover glass of iPhone 8 or completely replace the popular feature with an advanced facial recognition system.

Apple’s struggles with the workaround for the fingerprint sensor increases the potential that the OLED iPhone could be delayed or even ship without a fingerprint sensor at all, he speculates.

Hargreaves went as far as to suggest the flagship device could launch without Apple Pay support unless the Touch ID situation is resolved in a timely manner.

“We do not believe facial recognition would be initially qualified as an acceptable verification method for Apple Pay,” he wrote. “While Apple could achieve this over time, the likelihood for an initial lack of Apple Pay could adversely affect demand.”

It would typically take at least three months from ordering Touch ID chips to full iPhone volume production. If Apple does place orders for the chips before August, the company would likely be able to reach volume production in late October or early November, the analyst speculates.

“We believe this remains Apple’s preferred path, and expect it would be acceptable to both consumers and investors,” he said, adding it is “entirely unclear” if Apple will be able to fix the problem in this time frame.

He doesn’t think that an advanced facial recognition system would provide strong security required for Apple Pay, even if Apple designed this feature to work from many angles and in low-light environments, as suspected.

That’s because scanning your face wouldn’t work without clear line of sight to your face, which could be  especially problematic when paying with Apple Pay at stores.

Here’s an excerpt from the report:

Even if this encompassed just five percent of login scenarios, it would mean that several times a day the new iPhone would perform worse at an elemental feature than older iPhones, which would risk pushback from consumers.

Further, we do not believe facial recognition would be initially qualified as an acceptable verification method for Apple Pay. While Apple could achieve this over time, the likelihood for an initial lack of Apple Pay could adversely affect demand.

Hargreaves says a delay in the retail availability of iPhone 8 is “very unlikely, but possible,” especially if Apple decides that facial recognition isn’t suitable for Apple Pay.

Take the report with a grain of salt.

I don’t think Apple would launch its highly anticipated premium smartphone without Touch ID and Apple Pay support, although anything is possible.

How about you?

Claimed iPhone 8 schematics top of post via Sonny Dickson.

  • DT

    God. These analysts will report anything.

    If you honestly think Apple doesn’t have this nailed down already, then you’re an idiot

  • hush


  • Bespin

    Whatever this is the start of a long Apple decline, nothing good comes from a low volume expensive phone and a fifth year of IPhone 6 for the masses… then what happens after the tenth anniversary? A: nothing

    The iPhone is a tech product that is over a decade old…. move on

    The worst part is what are these tech blogs gonna write about with no one caring about apple?

    • DT

      Jesus Christ. Apple is doing making tons of money and selling devices like crazy but, just like the fake news, you say they’re in decline.

      • Bespin

        They have LESS users, many long time “mac faithful” using PC’s now permanently , A watch that “requires” an iPhone a music service that requires an “IPhone”. Take away HP jack to but overprices air pods, a $400 “home pod-LOL” speaker, ARKit for 6″ -12″ screens , Planet of the Apps

        Its ALL about extracting money from those who remain and that number is getting less everyday as apple eco weakens.. Surface destroys bit by bit apple eco by design. Kill the eco kill iphone

      • Assassin

        Absolutely apple is a joke I thought of buying iPhone 8 but now I’m switching to samsung but mostly Google

      • Glad to hear you were able to review a phone that hasn’t been seen by anyone outside Apple, announced in any way or even mentioned accidentally by an Apple employee without any bias on your part whatsoever.

        Obviously comparing a phone based on nothing but conjecture and rumors to an existing phone that underperforms in its market was a fair and honorable undertaking and I’d personally love it if you’d take the time to share with the rest of us your finding on this matter so that we too may make informed decisions.

      • Assassin

        Watch Everything apple pro, Brownlee etc who go millions of subscribers and apple fans.Plus all the articles say there’s no touch id.So?

      • Again, nothing but rumors. We don’t even know if we will see an iPhone 8 this year with 100% certainty.

      • Josh Kushner

        I’m sorry but I don’t think the user base of macOS is switching to Windows, don’t pull accusations out of your ass without backing it with statistics…

      • DT

        Where’s your stats for OSX users dumping the Mac?
        Watch does require an iPhone, you’re correct, but not required to own one
        Music does NOT. It’s available on android.
        So far, just about everyone is living just fine without a HP jack.
        HomePod isn’t even released yet so your thoughts are irrelevant
        ARKit isn’t even released, so again, irrelevant

      • Bespin

        leo lapport (studio) Meghan Maroney (SP) many other uber apple fans

      • You should trust facts, not fake news

      • Bespin

        or what I see all around me on onground and online

      • Ok so you have a few names… what about the IBM announcement October last year that they were deploying over 1,300 macs internally every week with the goal of getting the 100,000 employee computers switched over to Macs? The reason? IBM claims that every Mac deployed instead of a PC saved them hundreds of dollars over a 4-5 year period.

      • Bespin

        Ibm and Apple are two dinosaurs that are partnering up to try to survive a world not dominated by them (add in cisco) so of course Apple dumped their macs on willing ibm. They will probably do the same with cisco. In the end won’t matter.

        Of course ibm claims that silly.

      • I’m curious what your definition is of “dominated”… Apple is currently the most successful company in the world so it’s a bit of a strange claim to me.

        Also, patterning up with another company to shore up your weaknesses is just common sense. Even fast growing startups partner with people. Or are you not aware that Google, Samsung and Microsoft also partner with other companies?

      • Bespin

        Oh I’m aware, the difference is Microsoft partners with HP, Dell the rest of the OEMs or Canonical even Samsung and FB. They acquire strategic companies like Linked IN (worlds largest professional network) , over eight highly respected Cyber security companies base in isreal, SwiftKey to gain inroads into IOS. This will enable cloud cut and paste from IPhone to a windows 10 pc. Cortana will replace siri.

        Apple has huge weaknesses they are a one product company with a decimated ecosystem. The world does not want “trapped” by apple. That is old school like being trapped by AOL.

        Apples “dominance” which basically equates to revenue in mobile is temporary once that goes they have literally nothing to replace it as everything is tied to their new Rose gold, mirror black slab of the year which is no longer 199.

        Apple also has the worlds largest debt they borrowed a lot

        Apple thrived in revenue as top some it was the de facto better than android, yet guess what there will be other competitors with much more compelling devices

      • Again, you’re making some very odd claims with makes it hard to work with you.

        While it’s true that Apple makes most of its money from iPhones, they are hardly a 1 product company. In fact of the top ten best selling computers of last year 3 of them are Apple products. The Mac mini, the 4K iMac and the 5K iMac (ALL of which individually outsold the surface studio BTW).

        I don’t know what you mean by trapped by apple either. Or are you unaware that every ecosystem has buy-in? If you are an Android user, and Microsoft user or an Apple user your purchases, apps, and services don’t seamlessly move between them. You can’t buy $1000 in Google Play apps and expect them to transfer to iPhone. EVERY ecosystem will trap you in it if you integrate yourself deep enough.

      • Bespin

        Not true as Microsoft graph and eventually UWP will redefine eco as one that involves Microsoft there is a reason they did 10 and bought Xamarin

        The fact is unless you own an iPhone every other apple product is bottom of your list, makes zero sense to own any of it. IPhone user put up with it because they get a few extra features and their apple friends get a colored bubble

      • So all this is based on your speculations and predictions? Fair enough, but that’s something only time will tell.

      • Bespin

        Not speculation… its like freeways as they were being built you could envision what was happening and how things would change for horse drawn carriage market

        Apple=AOL in so many ways
        They just managed to make more revenue is all.

        World will move on. It has to.

        Microsoft calls the shots as the worlds largest software AND security company, not apple

        Software always trumps hardware, they are getting busy recovering for the “DOJ years”

      • Well then you should become an analyst. Perhaps you’ll be one of the few that doesn’t seem to be completely wrong every single year.

      • Bespin

        I know tech been in it since 1982 and have knowledge of the worlds technology landscape and future plans , basically where we are going. the tech press likes apple for clicks and many were sucked in that is being corrected as we speak

      • Hurry, run for the hills! Apple is DOOMED!!!

      • Bespin

        They are

      • Less users? It’s true that people have left but it’s also true that people have switched from pc to Mac.

        And despite what you say Apple Watch sales doubled this last year, iPhones are still outselling any other single brand, the Mac laptops last quarter were reported as up in sales and as a matter of fact in April Microsoft announced their surface sales had dropped 26%. I don’t know where you’re getting your info from but I think you need a new source.

      • Bespin

        Doubled what? No numbers ever released lumped in with other. The only people that switched to Mac was Apples dino partner IBM.
        As for Surface nearly two years between updates on the pro. . Yet both HP and DELL grew of sales so the Surface strategy is working. Blow open new category and let OEMs thrive.

      • Yes doubled, Time Cook specifically said that sales had doubled over the last year in the last earnings call referring to the watch by name (so no those weren’t lumped in with others). So while no specific numbers were released, we do have officially released info that it’s a rapidly growing item sale-wise.

        Also who cares about the age of a company? The only question is what they are doing. But unfortunately you’re all over the place so responses are a bit weird (sorry about that) but Surface sales are very poor compared to Apple in every regard. The surface lineup is dwarfed by both the iPad in terms of revenue and crushed by Mac sales. Again I don’t follow your comments here, while Apple’s sales are going up, sales of the Surface are plummeting 26% decline is HUGE.

      • Bespin

        I can double 10 get 20 so is that success? What are the numbers and how large is the “iPhone accessory” market?

        Not the age of the company follow me..

        The age of a single device that’s iterated and soley based on an even older iterated device..ipod.

        As for surface sales being poor. That is by design. OEMs are the only successful PC shipper last quarter why …Surface and new categories without competition

        Makes apple touch bar look stupid , even more so when another device blows it away

        Or the dial versus touchbar for DJ music again makes the touchbar look stupid

      • According to Forbes estimates it’s believed that Apple sold about 11,900,000 smartwatches accounting for 80% of all smartwatch revenue.

      • Bespin

        80% of a tiny segment requiring an iPhone at 850..not impressed

      • So wait, going from 0% to well over half in just a couple years and gaining near instant market dominance with a device that requires you to have a particular brand of phone that less than 20% of smartphone owners have doesn’t impress you? Ok.

      • Bespin

        No it does not as a pillar strategy of Apple, they should diversify off IPhone accessories since iPhone sales are in decline

      • Depends on what you mean, iPhone is the most successful phone in the whole world. It’s OS which you’re confusing is around 20%. If you look at all the thousands of individual phones out there Apple is well out on top of the pile. If you compare Apple against every single company in the whole world then they are at around 20% (just under).

        The problem is that Samsung’s flagship phones, Google’s new pixel and so on are all separate phones and when compared individually against Apple paint a different story of success then lumping all the phones together from all the different companies and saying together they beat Apple.

      • Bespin

        Apple is rare and declining that’s the issue does not matter if iPhone is number 1 when 80/100 choose other

      • Galaxy Life

        The other problem is that if you want iOS your only choice is an iPhone. If you want Android there’s plenty to choose from.

        So saying the iPhone is most popular is not entirely true.

      • While OS availability does draw consumers to the iPhone and contribute to an oversaturated Android phone market it’s not fair to state that this mean’s iPhone really isn’t the most popular. It’s certainly a contributing factor though.

        If Samsung were to ditch Google completely tomorrow they would undoubtedly loose a huge chunk of marketshare (if for no other reason than their customers are embedded in Google’s ecosystem). But I wouldn’t say that’s the only reason they are successful either. Every phone’s success is a product of their OS, 3rd party apps and hardware, and iPhone as a result of these 3 is currently on top (as far as individual phone models).

      • Jay

        I think you’d get an iPhone if it were easy to run Android. If other phones could easily run iOS and get jailbroken I probably wouldn’t have an iPhone…

    • By that logic the internet is technology that’s decades old get off… as a matter a fact computers are even older why bother? Who cares if the iPhone was invented a decade ago? It’s still the industry gold standard that all other phones are compared against and the number 1 best selling phone model in the world.

      • Bespin

        Smartphone globally in decline ripe to be disrupted by cloud pocket computers.

        I hear Apple finally put a datacenter on china after being forced to…cute

      • I assume that when you refer to cloud pocket computers you’re referring to things like the Solu? If so then I don’t understand this claim at all. Phones and cloud personal computers are two separate categories of devices that were never even designed to compete.

        Look up the global revenue for smartphones BTW. from 2013-2016 it grew every single year. It’s currently on an all time high which means there is 0 evidence of your claims of a decline.

        BTW, what on earth does a data center in China have to do with anything? Apple does things every year to comply with local regulations and requirements.

        Also, iOS is sitting at 19.35% global marketshare and appears from the data to be holding fairly steady instead of being in any sort of decline.

        Again, what does where a datacenter is located have to do with anything?

      • Bespin

        The current paradigm is all cloud , the fact that apple did not already have a datacenter in China is a joke. iOS usage in smartphones was 20 now 12 almost single digits. As for revenue whatever if they can convince 15 percent of the people to lifetime monthly lease their phones then there is the revenue however the days of a joyful “my time to upgrade” for $199 OTD are long gone…

        Now its another monthly bill say 46 for the device times 12 is 552 or more than twice the 199.

        So people are paying MSRP on these slabs and that only works for the 15 percent or so who do not care or got fooled by “iPhone for life” or whatever marketing speak they use.

        The elephant in the room though is what happens once iPhone continues to fall out of favor ? I would say after ten years that day is coming very soon.

      • You do realize that you can have a robust cloud offering for worldwide users without having a data center in China right?

        Well unless you have data no one else does, the marketshare value that I quoted was for last month. Is it possible that they plummeted in the last 13 days? Yes, but highly unlikely…

        I honestly can’t follow your line of arguments (sorry). But Apple is a ways off from failing and becoming irrelevant. Will it happen someday? probably… But people have been predicting their downfall for the last 8+ years and have been wrong so far. It doesn’t appear to be happening any time soon.

      • Bespin

        Apple cannot weather the cloud first world ..simple
        They are now “old school”

        As ARM LTE/5G devices running full OS’s flood the market , Apple is toast
        Its like Tesla in cars. Once US/Japan/Germany flood the market they are toast too.

        Apple enjoyed the time MSFT was under DOJ/EU restrictions remember when MSFT could not have their own AV ?

        So MSFT instead changed the rules to age out competitors enter Azure/Surface

        Apple and googles rise was artificially created

      • LOL, it depends on what you mean by cloud. Apple has had a VERY strong cloud offering for years and years. But Apple’s philosophy for how to use cloud storage is different from other companies. Is it right or wrong? Only time will tell.

      • Bespin

        Apples cloud is for apple devices is for iPhone ..that’s the problem

        Its more expensive and buggier

        Think of this :

        AOL vs Internet
        Apple vs Global Hyper Scale Cloud

        We know how this ends don’t we?

      • Apple’s cloud is actually for all their products. Things like document sharing and collaboration on the Mac, streaming of TV shows and music previously purchased on the Apple TV, getting photos and apps on the iPad etc.

      • Bespin

        Apple TV is a joke you know that. Mac are in decline and IPhone are in decline so chaining you hopes in icloud is not a great future vision

        All the worlds data and services will be in clouds , not much of it in apples cloud

        1TB of OneDrive is either free with .edu Office 365 or $9 a month

        Include free music ai streaming via groove, access devices anywhere if you want and intelligent photo storage with photo gallery also integrates with ever app and on every platform

  • Raymond Lanser

    Anyone else think Apple is purposely misleading the industry and has multiple prototypes just to counteract the rumor/leak cycle for their products?

  • Assassin
  • Jerry

    Without apple pay support when one of thew new features is apple pay phone to phone. CMON SON