Me and Saurik

Every once in a while, a group of individuals surfaces to offer a new “Cydia alternative.” Full of good intentions, these individuals usually realize quickly enough that building a replacement or even a complement to Cydia isn’t an easy task.

The latest Cydia alternative to generate interest within the community is iMods, an elegant installer that doesn’t necessarily aim to take on Cydia, but rather target a different user base, as one of its developer explains. The concept, both in terms of design and engineering sounds promising, but is it viable?

Does it even make sense to try to bring a new installer to market? What does it take to do so, and what hurdles should the developers of such a tool be ready to face? These are some questions that Saurik tries to answer in a 5,600 word essay…

After several past failed attempts to paraphrase Saurik, I won’t even adventure myself on this dangerous territory. Instead, I invite you to read Competition vs. Community, a great read penned by Saurik himself, in which he explains what it is like to be Saurik, but most importantly, in which he argues that competition is the clear opposite of “community.

Saurik makes some very valid points in this post. You may agree with him, or you may believe he’s just defending his own interests. Either way, it is something you should read.

Head over to Saurik’s website to read his views on the matter, then come back here and tell us what you think.

  • Martin

    Well I’m gonna be here for a while…

    • Antzboogie

      We have to show respect and love for Saurik. I know I do.

  • Jonathan

    If Cydia had that design, that would be amazing.

  • CA

    Yeah iMods design looks nice, but I’ll be sticking with Cydia on this one. I know I can trust Saurik

    • Tony

      Trust him to do what? He doesn’t do anything but put everyone else down. Just because something is different doesn’t mean you can’t trust it. Same goes for the latest jailbreak.

      • You have no idea what you’re talking about…

      • Did you even read the article on Sauriks website? If you did you’d have noticed that @Jay Freeman (saurik):disqus does a lot more than just Cydia. He maintains key packages for developers and for end users. I’m not writing this to hurt or shame you but I don’t think people like you realise the magnitude of the things that @Jay Freeman (saurik):disqus actually does for us. Without things like Cydia Substrate and Substrate SafeMode jailbreaking (from a users perspective) would literally be dead. In fact for a while it was practically dead while we were waiting on the updates to Cydia Substrate and Substrate SafeMode for iOS 7…

      • Antzboogie

        Exactly.

      • Antzboogie

        Your a fool for that comment. He has to defend himself as well you know. He has done so much he kind of does have the right to be a little cocky.

      • Tony

        You guys crack me up, just because I don’t drink the koolaide doesn’t mean I don’t know what I’m talking about. He’s not the be all end all of jailbreaking. People are just lazy! If half of you would learn how to program this community would be even bigger and you would understand you don’t need to rely on this guy. I’ll leave this topic now so you guys can go back to the matrix.

      • So do you know how to program? If not does that not make you as lazy as the people you claim are lazy? Just because not everyone can program it does not mean that they cannot be a part of the jailbreak community. Also even those that can program can’t do have the stuff Saurik does. There’s programming and then there’s programming. Doing half the stuff Saurik does requires so much time and effort and even people that do know how to program can’t always dedicate that much time to do so…

      • Niclas

        True, just because Tony don’t drink the koolaide doesn’t mean that he don’t know what he’s talking about.

        But no matter what the reasons are, he still don’t know what what he’s talking about at all.

        And no. Tony don’t have a clue about coding. If he would he would know that many of the underlying tools making a jailbroken device work, is because of saurik.

      • Johannes Mertens

        8 months old article, but i gotta say: What a jerk!

  • jp2002

    Its a competitive world out there saurik. You either catch up with competition or just die out.

    • Damian

      There is not any competition because they all died out. Saurik is the last man standing

      • Merman123

        Did you not read the article?

      • Damian

        I did read it and I read his essay.

        Did you read it? Because as far as I know and what Saurik says there is no competition for Cydia

      • Niclas

        Don’t you know anything about JB app stores?

      • Getoffsauriksdick

        Bro you too stop being all up on Saurik

      • Niclas

        Bro, the guy has made JBing what it is today, and I don’t give a shit about some ignorat troll like yourself.
        If you post lies, wrong accusations, and insults about him, I’ll be sure to set you straight.

      • ✦ intelligent anomaly ✦

        I understand that Saurik is one of the leading pioneers of the Jailbreaking scene, however we rely on Cydia for everything and if it ‘went away’ for whatever reason, the community is done for. Regardless what people may want to believe, we do need a few viable alternatives and those thinking Saurik or Cydia will last forever is simply naive.

      • Damian

        Look, Installlous was done and they came up with alternative…z

        Hmmm I should have used a better example.

      • Niclas

        Cydia is open source witch means that anyone can pick it up and continue from there.
        Saurik often publicly ask for contributions in Substrate and Cydia. But few to none want to dedicate their time to it, fortunately we have Saurik.

  • Eikast

    Well this is good news. It’s never good news to have a monopoly

    • Niclas

      It is, if that one person is Saurik. But since Saurik is so rare, your point is almost valid…

      • Agru

        Sorry, safari crashed when I was typing so I only have a screenshot of my comment

      • Damian

        4 the same screenshots. Really!?

      • Agru

        Man have you ever tried uploading a screenshot from your iphone to disqus?
        I couldn’t see anything being uploaded, there was no thumbnail, that’s why i posted a comment saying “hope it shows up”. Chill.

      • Niclas

        I hate when that happens! But please rewrite next time for the sake of not making the comments look even more chaotic.

        As for your thoughts, Cydia is open source witch means that anyone can pick it up and continue from there.

      • Agru

        That’s the downside of disqus, it’s great but very heavyweight.
        Let’s say a team decided to start their own project using cydia source code, wouldn’t that still be competition? Safer probably since that code is being tested every day by millions of jbreakers, but still an alternative. I’d say we should give these guys a chance, they will only give us an alternative market, how can it affect cydia? If it does, it means they’ve given us something that is really better than cydia (just like the installer/cydia transition).. Which is good for us. I mean, we aren’t Saurik’s knights, we should care about us, the community. We should support anything that can improve our experience.
        Moreover, if running cydia is really that expensive and a big loss of money, if and when alternatives take over the market Saurik will be super super happy, won’t he?

      • Niclas

        You simply don’t fork a project like Cydia. You do commits.

      • Agru

        Hope it is displayed

  • Soetch

    How do I install imods?

    • Jeremy

      No release until around iPhone 6/iOS 8 debut

      • Hasan Choudhury

        vaporware

  • Stephen Rector

    I would love to get on board with iMods and move over from Cydia. I like the idea of a “app store” like interface that focuses on providing uniformity (pics, videos, descriptions) that is controlled by one host instead of something different for every repo. I can see the down sides to this but for an everyday user the iMods store looks appealing. It also breaks things down into categories and top downloads (something it is able to do since they host everything in house). These are nice features that combined with the UI have me sold on the new competitor. Nothing against Saurik. He has been a well respected pioneer in this community. However, Cydia has not evolved as far as new features and better presentation over the years.

    The problem I forsee with iMods, however, is I don’t think they have the plans in order to have a successful transition for people. I read on the reddit forums that to host in their store your app/tweak/theme can not be hosted on a major repo in Cydia. This would cause a lot of issues for devs that want to keep their customers that choose to rely on the Cydia store happy. Also, I don’t know how they plan to handle customers that switch over from Cydia who have several purchases through Cydia already.

    • (something it is able to do since they host everything in house)

      I can’t wait to see the destruction that’ll occur during the next jailbreak then since there servers will get completely bombarded via DDOS attacks. You might dislike the fact that Cydia uses multiple default repositories to host content but in actuality this is a good thing. It reduces costs for SaurikIT since they aren’t providing the hosting and it also ensures that if one repository goes down then everything doesn’t go down.

    • John Sklikas

      As stated, it can be on both.“The repo exclusion clause was made to prevent multiple Debian repositories, also called Cydia repositories from having the same package, something that could cause a clash. However, iMods is not based off a Debian server and its server won’t be accessible through Cydia hence, iMods does not qualify as a Cydia Repo. The repo exclusivity agreement states, ‘I will not submit to another community source’, thus iMods exactly, because it’s not a Cydia source, is not affected by the above clause.” If that isn’t clear, as a dev, I can explain. ModMyi rephrases the same thing as “default Cydia source”. A community source is a repo (or source) that can be added by the community to Cydia. Since iMods is not a repo, nor a Cydia source, it doesn’t classify either as a default source, or as a community source, since it can’t be added as a source to Cydia by the community. Hence and thereafter, the exclusivity clause doesn’t apply to iMods

  • Eli Montoya

    Remember when “Cydia acquired Rock”

  • James Gunaca

    If iMods means Saurik backs away from jailbreaking which could cripple our ecosystem then no matter how shiny it looks id rather not support it.

    • raulortiz318

      That part was weird to me. It comes off as some veiled threat.

      His whole post is all over the place. He starts out saying he doesn’t want to compete and then finishes off by basically saying “there is no way you will win.”

      The truth is most users out there would prefer a better organized Cydia. Most people leave the category list as default, so when you look at the recently updated tweaks it’s a hot mess of horrible themes, soundboards, and other things that bury the good stuff. There is no discovery, you basically search the exact name of a tweak that you’ve read about on a jailbreak blog like iDB or heard about from a friend.

      People have been asking Saurik for a while now to update the organization, because not only will it help users find tweaks easier, but will lead to more sales for developers. He hasn’t provided that, so of course this opens the door for others to try.

      All that said, it is up to the owners of the new store to run it the right way. Features like a ratings system can easily lead to developers trying to game the system. We shall see how it all plays out.

      • Niclas

        You don’t get it, it’s not up to Saurik to do wat wou want to have done. It is the repo’s that have to do stuff like top lists and ratings.

      • Merman123

        No, stop posting misguided information man. Saurik would obviously have to implement this into Cydia itself in order for it to function in the way that most users envision it.

      • Niclas

        WRONG.
        You obviously don’t know how cydia works.
        An analogy
        Cydia is a web browser, your tabs (repos) shows your content.

        Repos could very well have toplists, ratings etc.

        It is like this so that not one person control the content. Witch is in turn the very reason we JB our devices.

      • Merman123

        You don’t understand. What you are describing somewhat already exists. I’ve seen it on pirate repos in the past. That is NOT the type of system we are talking about here. This [new] system would have to be a much cleaner and supervised rating system, much like the AppStore. I clearly stated on my post “…for it to function in the way that most users envision it.” What you describe is not what users want, pay attention to what you post, because in trying to embarrass me, you’re embarrassing yourself.

      • Niclas

        Since the mods takes ages to accept posts with links, I’ll write a short reply.

        It has already been tested, and it has been proven to not work. Google it since I cannot provide links, read Sauriks reddit history. Read his post in the website.

      • If I remember correctly, ROCK didn’t rely on repos to show tweak ratings…

      • Niclas

        But rock isn’t Cydia is it?
        Cydia doesen’t need to change anything for ratings to happen, it would have to be the repos that had to change.

      • “But rock isn’t Cydia is it?”

        Some of it’s code is part of Cydia, been like that since 2010 (http://bit ly/1oUjrVr), but for whatever reason, Saurik left out that essential rating system code.

        “Cydia doesen’t need to change anything for ratings to happen, it would have to be the repos that had to change.”

        Oh, so what you’re implying is that we have a per-repo ratings system? That’s a good idea, although, that would still require Cydia to have some public API for repo owners to implement, which itself would probably need to be updated to support. So that Cydia can be getting the rating info from each site in order to display it in an AppStore like manner, otherwise, you just end up with an all-over-the-place system; that’s making room for a neater system, which could come from competitor like Rock.

      • Niclas

        Oh no… Come on, read about the stuff, will you?

        “Rock only had faster loading because it did not honor APT correctly, so there were numerous buggy situations where you got screwed: there was even a recent time when Rock was screwing up an installation so core that everyone had to restore… Rock’s speed was just because it was sloppy.”

        NO code was transferred from Rock to cydia.

        As said before, all that have to be done for ratings to appear is that repos enable them.

      • Oh, so you saying Cydia just bought Rock for the sake of putting an end to the competition or was it for the sake of getting a hold of the Rock devs?

      • Niclas

        While the mods here review my post bc of the link I can tell you that it is none of the above.

        Intelliborn was happy to let go of the project and shove over the responsibility to Cydia.

        From the merger FAQ:

        “Q:
        But… Rock was awesome! It was so much faster than Cydia it hurts. 🙁

        A:
        Unfortunately, Rock’s speed came from taking a few incorrect/dangerous shortcuts, which precipitated the event that really forced us to where we are now: an “essential upgrade” that was required for the Spirit jailbreak, which, when installed by Rock Your Phone, forced everyone to restore their devices and start over.”

      • “Intelliborn was happy to let go of the project and shove over the responsibility to Cydia.”

        I’ll definitely be happy to give up my job for a significant amount of cash. Just like WhatsApp’s devs were most definitely happy to give responsibility/control of their servers to facecrook for $19 billion.

        However, I 99.999% doubt the person that gives me the significant amount of cash, for me to give up my job, did it just to make me happy, without ANY personal gain. Just like I doubt facecrook bought WhatsApp just to make the WhatsApp devs happy.

        Or you mean to tell me Saurik is that generous? I’ll believe that when I wake up to a mere $100 in my PayPal account from him…

      • Niclas

        Sorry but I don’t have time to call out your incorrect guesses and set you straight any more.
        Please do some research instead and save my time.

        Rock was bought by Saurik for 1$. And, yes, Intelliborn was relived. Not for any money but rather the fact that they didn’t have to run the Rock store, because running a app-store is hard work and not very profitable.

        “You have to understand that the most popular applications in the ecosystem are from Intelliborn, and I only get 1% of their earnings due the Rock deal… which, if you remember, is a deal where I paid $1 and did not actually get any real control of Rock (in fact, I specifically told them they could continue distributing and hosting the app itself, and they declined). As Mario (owner of Rock Your Phone) said to the Washington Post (in the same article where these terms were published): “I saw an exit strategy and I wanted to focus on developing [apps]“.”

      • Niclas

        The next time you find four quarters you can quit your job then…

        Sorry but I don’t have any more time to reply to your incorrect, uneducated, guesses.
        If you really wan’t to learn about something; do some research and stop wasting my time.
        You basically don’t have a clue of what your talking about.

        Saurik bought Rock for 1$. And Rock was happy to find an exit strategy in the non financial beneficial app-store business.

        From an earlier iDB article (Saurik):
        “Stores like this really do not make much money… you can claim it all you want, and you can be pissed about it all you want, but it doesn’t change the facts: Apple pretty much breaks even on the App Store (public earning reports, statements in press conferences), the Android Market loses money (analysis by a judge in a lawsuit based on internal accounting documents), and other random stores you see (including Cydia) are lifestyle businesses at best and pits of despair and debt at their worst (anecdotal statements and evidence from developers of alternative Android markets I meet at conferences). For me, this all honestly takes up much more mental time and pain for sufficiently little money that if I didn’t feel this community was important I’d be stupid for continuing to subject myself to rants like yours.

        You have to understand that the most popular applications in the ecosystem are from Intelliborn, and I only get 1% of their earnings due the Rock deal… which, if you remember, is a deal where I paid $1 and did not actually get any real control of Rock (in fact, I specifically told them they could continue distributing and hosting the app itself, and they declined). As Mario (owner of Rock Your Phone) said to the Washington Post (in the same article where these terms were published): “I saw an exit strategy and I wanted to focus on developing [apps]“.”

  • jack

    saurik is old and done. he already screwed us with the SHSH blobs fiasco

    • onesimpleclik

      without Saurik, we would have no reason to jailbreak.

      • Tony

        Not true, you can mod without it. It’s just convienace now. Alternatives are very much needed though.

  • Matt

    I read the whole thing on Reddit. And boy I finished drinking 2 cups of tea

    • Damian

      It would survive if it gets all the love from community. It is not one man or three man job, like it is with Saurik case.

      I am afraid to say it, but it seems that the best way would be if you actually pay individually for using Cydia or imods

  • GuyWithTheThings

    Yeah well Cydia needs a redesign now…

  • Tony

    Can’t stand this guy. He lives in the dark ages. Sure he has cydia and a few odds and ends programs but he never does anything innovative. He puts down anyone who does anything away from cydia. And heaven forbid anyone calls him out on how bad things are with cydia and winterboard. He doesn’t care. Still hoping someone stays the course and some day takes down cydia. “Rock” was so much better! I wish the new guys all the luck in the world.

    • So do these ‘new guys’ have their own implementation of Cydia Substrate and Cydia SafeMode? Saurik (yes that guy with a beard that you supposedly can’t stand) created them and without them or a good (and a stress the good part) alternative an alternative to Cydia is useless.

      • John Sklikas

        ^Yes I dm’ed them, they do have their own versions of all of the above…

      • Niclas

        Theres little to none chances that they have built their own safe-mode mechanism based on the time they have been developing it.

        And since it works together with cydia, they probably use Cydia Substrate.

  • Merman123

    “stay with cydia or I’ll leave cause it’s not fun if I have competition. I sacrificed so many things for you guys in the past. Stick with my outdated UI. It’s for the better. Don’t take me for granted”. Honestly guys I don’t see his point. Or rather , I see it but it seems so weak of a point. Why are people afraid of change ? It’s probably not even good for us to rely on one single person for so much. There will always be a before an after. Stop glorifying people. Seriously, who writes an essay at the sight of something that looks even slightly better than your own work, in fear of loosing your people. You talk down competition, bring up random sacrifices you make , which to me are questionable. One can only do so many “sacrifices”. He says he’s not in it for the money? Well I laugh at that. He made cydia small enough to be ran by himself and a couple of members , and that has allowed him to closely watch how everything runs. It’s what he envisioned for cydia and it’s worked. He says we shouldn’t take him for granted , well I say the same thing to him. Don’t take the community for granted. I really dislike this blackmail disguised as a cry for help. He’s basically threatening the whole community, for something that will most likely fail anyway. Why not just let things run it’s course? I will most likely always use cydia, but the point he is making , trying to say competition wouldn’t work because cydia isn’t a business , is outright ridiculous. Don’t be fooled by good writing and fluency. Don’t forget there are ads in every repo you visit. Don’t forget there are developers making thousands for being able to swipe up on your key and put another character. Or themers making thousands out of the looks of icons. C’mon guys. Cydia is definitely driven by money. And that is completely fine, but why does he paint himself as the Peter Pan saying “I could’ve done this but I didn’t” 100x. Every person has their flaws , and one of sauriks could be that he’s so damn stubborn. I get THAT from reading this ;P.

    • Agru

      Also, Cydia took over from Installer, wasn’t that competition too?

      • Niclas

        Installer was dead when cydia was built.
        After cydia had been the only alvalible store at ios 2.0, Installer was released from a different developer at ios 2.0.1.
        Most people decided that cydia was the best implementation.

      • Wasn’t Rock competition to Cydia? Then Cydia bought Rock for whatever reason…

      • Niclas

        Rock was happily let off.

        It was so bad that when it started to brick peoples phones back in the Spirit JB, they hand it over to Cydia.

      • Agru

        Cydia was built before iPhone OS 2. And installer wasn’t dead, it hadn’t been updated yet. According to his words, Jay should have helped the Installer team make it better. But he decided to make a brand new store. I call that competition! And it’s probably the most important freedom jailbreakers have. We have had bitesms for many years before auki came out, and we also had irealsms back in the day. Should every other team have helped bitesms get better?

      • Niclas

        Cydia on IOS1 was released because Installer was closed source. It was not competing, it was the open source alternative with APT. Also, Installer was slowly dying.

        “I didn’t write Cydia because I wanted to compete with AppTapp, I wrote it because AppTapp was already dead.”

        “…the author of AppTapp Installer disappeared and never returned around iPhoneOS 1.1.2.

        After Cydia came out, a different group (RiPDev) was given the code and started releasing updates to Installer 3, and later Installer 4 (an incompatible rewrite) for iPhoneOS 2.0.1 (long after Cydia was the only option for iPhoneOS 2.0).

        By this point, repositories had long since decided Cydia was a better bet.”

      • Agru

        That makes more sense, but now i can’t understand why he’s getting mad at imods alternative market if he released cydia as an open source project. He encouraged development

    • Al

      I think you missing the point. It’s not blackmail, it’s pointed at the community.

      The title speaks for itself… Competition vs Community, we as a community need to support jailbreak as a whole. There’s factors much bigger than Cydia such as fighting on keeping jailbreaking legal or educating the benefits of jailbreaking whereas thinking the pirating aspects of it.

      Saurik relies on the community that’s why it’s more of an effort as uniting the jailbreak community. Instead pulling resources in competing against Cydia… Simply, support it.

    • Niclas

      Sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about.
      Ads on repos are their ads not cydias. The repo cover their time and server costs by showing ads.
      He has done more to the community than you can remotely grasp atm.
      Please read about it and then come back to your post. You would be embarrassed.

      • Merman123

        And why do you suppose that repos pay for server costs to begin with? Because of the profit it creates. Which is my initial point. Cydia is definitely a MARKET, thus it is a business, and like any business it is driven by money. I am not trying to take away what Saurik has done for the community. If you got that from my post, then you have misunderstood my point. I don’t care if it’s Saurik or anyone else saying it; to say that competition is bad is total brainwash.

      • Niclas

        “Don’t be fooled by good writing and fluency. Don’t forget there are ads in every repo you visit.”

        Don’t be fooled by foolish people. Who are wrong…

        Those ads has nothing to do with Saurik so why bring them up?

        No one have said that cydia is not a business! But that buisiness is not driven by capitalism but by the community!

        If it was driven by capitalism, he would only allow his repos, payment system, show his own ads etc. which isn’t the case.

      • John Sklikas

        SaurikIT gets 30% off the tweaks and yes, because Saurik doesn’t pay for the repo server cost, he has a 30% cut, out of millions of dollars of sales, with virtually no expenses. What a noble man, eh?

      • Damian

        If we should believe him, Saurik said multiple times that thanks to Cydia he makes just enough to pay the bills and a bit more. The money goes on the maintainance

      • Niclas

        The usual deal in the Cydia Store is the Apple 30/70; Cydia handles all international sales/VAT taxes and all transaction fees.

        A pretty good deal if you ask me.

      • Niclas

        LOL are you really that stupid? Or are you just trolling?

        30% – 7.5% (PayPal) – 7.5% (EU VAT) – server costs (repo (yes saurik runs the most important repo in Cydia) and other stuff) – time – two employees = NOT 30%

        Second of all, most money Saurik gets left, he spends back on the community. And yes that IS noble.

        If people could just have a clue of what they where talking about, I wouldn’t have to waste my and others time… 🙁

        Read more: http://www.idownloadblog. com/2012/08/02/saurik-explains-cydias

      • John Sklikas

        And yeah oh dear, someone offended my dear Saurik, let’s prove him wrong with and article that he wrote! That’s your logic. If you have the reason to doubt me, spend the time (or ask me to send you) my programs that dump the sale numbers on Cydia. Even if it was 15% left, a server like that just costs thousands per year and I know because I have a server too. Do you think it’s feasible to spend more than 15 millions (check it) on the community? Not even him gifting a golden watch to the community costs that much. Why did he reply to iMods. For the first time, something is capable to replace Cydia, is much nicer and has the support of the community and he’ll lose his money. Oh what a tragedy saurik, that’ll make you leave instead of improve, so sad…

      • Niclas

        LOL! No seriously, you are a MUCH more trustworthy source! ^^
        “I own a server too” lol, who doesen’t? Good laugh mate!
        Your reply above proves that you know nothing.
        So I rest my case.

        Get real. iMods is shit. End of story.
        http://theiostream.tumblr. com/post/76474868140/an-analysis-on-imods

    • I don’t believe you paid any attention to the content of the essay. Your opinion is very one-sided…

    • Damian

      In his defence he writes essays for everything.

    • Damian

      Saurik writes essays for everything. Probably his text messages are like essays

      Anyway it looks like you misinterpret things and take them to the whole new level

  • Al

    The whole idea of his essay… Is to support Cydia and not go off to build an alternative.

    The jailbreak community ask for an update to Cydia or add a certain feature.. Perhaps they have an amazing idea. The point of the matter is whatever feature Saurik tries to implement there’s cost behind it. Of course, Saurik doesn’t do it for the money… But let’s be realistic, everything has a cost attach to it.

    Supporting Cydia such as donating and paying for tweaks or themes instead of pirating them. Being apart of a community is important when it comes down to something as controversial as jailbreaking. Heck, Let’s Talk Jailbreak is forbidden in the iTunes. If the community exist as one making Cydia the very best as is makes Saurik job much easier and helps jailbreak as a whole…

    • CA

      EXACTLY!

    • Stephen Rector

      I agree with the community part. We have to support our freedom and keep jailbreaking legal but that does not mean that’s all we should be doing. I see nothing wrong with another group coming in with another product. The jailbreak community has grown drastically over the last 5 years. I still remember jailbreaking my iphone 3gs and it was a process, not a ton of everyday users took part, and the jailbreak community was a smaller less known group. Now, there is room to venture away from things such as Cydia. Jailbreaking is as simple as pointing and clicking and more everyday people are joining the community.

      I think to say we need to stick with one thing and that every other approach is bad for the community is a very negative way of thinking. That is blatantly telling the community that progress is bad. We are a growing group, let us expand, let competition in to drive us forward. I don’t see anything wrong with that.

  • Before I even go and read it, I’m gonna call BS. Saying “competition is the opposite of community” is total BS. Without competition, market owners slack off and don’t bother listening to feedback; that itself results in frustrated community members. As that continues, the community begins breaking up from within.

    If you’re reading this Saurik, consider doing the following:
    – Fix Cydia’s refund process; automate it or hire individuals for that particular role. I shouldn’t be forced to support terrible customer service just ’cause you didn’t bother reading my e-mail.

    – Add a rating system for buyers to live feedback on tweaks from the main repos. In the process, ensure that only accounts that have purchased the tweak can live feedback. That way, there wouldn’t be fake feedback.

    • I hope you understand that 90% of Cydia packages are free. So your idea for locking down the ratings system wouldn’t work out all too well. It’s ideas like that, that cause saurik to put them down. Be a little more insightful next time.

      Don’t get me wrong, any constructive criticism is good criticism, just make sure you think it through…

      • You misunderstand what I mean by purchasing a tweak. It doesn’t need to have a price on it to consider it a purchase; just like in the AppStore.

      • Jonathan Mills: “That’s even worse then. Anyone can install a package from Cydia. Plus, if you want it like that, it would be up to the repository to have that functionality.”

        How’s it worse than living it unlocked to spammers? You can’t download paid apps from the official repos without paying for them. The free apps can be downloaded, so, requiring you download and install them first b4 you are allowed to give feedback is as secure as it can get.

        “just make sure you think it through” b4 replying…

      • Niclas

        Read why it is a bad idea and why it was shut down. Yes at least one repo has tried a rating system.
        http://www.idownloadblog. com/2014/07/13/saurik-competition-community/#comment-1483727343

      • “It is like this so that not one person control the content.”

        Is that what you’re referring to as the reason why it’s a bad idea?

        If so, your idea of having the repos themselves hold the rating content already solves that. It’ll just need Saurik to create some public API for making the rating data for each tweak/app available to Cydia, so that Cydia can read it and display it in an organized appstore manner for each tweak. The repo owners could then implement it at a their own pace, though I’d expect the main repos to adapt the code within a week of being available.

      • Niclas

        Repo owners can enable ratings any time they want.
        Problem is that they don’t want to. It HAS already been tested. Didn’t work out well.

        Reseach, google, ask modmyi and bigboss.
        Stop wasting my time.

    • Damian

      I like the idea of leaving the comments for each tweaks. It would solve the rating issue

  • Jae. Just J.

    I think the whole idea that iMods would be the sole arbiter of what can be hosted and the fact they won’t allow developer repos is a huge negative. Isn’t the whole reason to jailbreak the freedom to install what we want and not have someone “approve” what is acceptable? Isn’t that why we rebel against Apple?

    • Tony

      Exactly! He’s just as bad as Apple. The community will survive without him and frankly with a letter such as that I say take a walk! I can mod my device without cydia. It’s more or less convenient to load cydia for tweaks but there’s other ways to put things on your device. I lost respect for this guy long ago when he makes promises he can’t keep and continues to put down other people’s ideas. He thinks the be all end all of all things jailbreaking when he’s not. He may have been a person on the cutting edge when it started but now he’s living in the past. I look forward to any new groups that want to go up against him. Instead of embracing technology he turns his back on it and says no no that can’t be done. Well he doesn’t even try. He’s fine with the way things are and claims that’s the best there is… yeah and where would technology be if everyone just sat there and said 14.4 modems were the best there is.. His 5 minutes of fame are up, if he’s not going to push forward and come up with new ideas.. and help continue to build the community.. then get out of the way and let others who actually have the passion and drive to try!

      • Are you talking about iMods or Cydia (Saurik) here? Since the comment you are replying to is clearly about iMods yet your comment seems convoluted and irrespective of anything that iMods and their owners have done.

      • Achy

        Pretty sure he’s talking about Jay.

        On topic: The “essay” was a great read. It, honestly, made me appreciate him even more.

      • Damian

        He is not stopping anyone. He is just saying that new people will have to put as much effort as he did. Otherwise they will fail

    • raulortiz318

      I read a short interview on iPhone Hacks with one of the developers of iMods. It seems their goal is to have a more curated experience and to create an environment more targeted to people who wouldn’t normally jailbreak. He/she made a good point that the majority of people who own iPhone’s think jailbreaking is illegal, messes up their phone (which it can if you’re not careful), etc., yet would probably enjoy a lot of the features you can get if you jailbreak.

      Getting more people to jailbreak is a benefit for both users and developers, and sometimes compromises have to be made to have that happen. If the compromise is a more curated store, so be it. It is up to the iMods team to do things the right way, so they still have to prove themselves, but the idea is a sound one.

      I’ll still use Cydia, as I’ve been jailbreaking for years, but for those who have less experience, an alternative is welcome. You can make your own choice too.

  • Adam

    Been jailbreaking since 2009 and I’m happy with Cydia. That post just really made me appreciate what Saurik does for the community. It’s also nice to know just how much of himself he dedicates and sacrifices to jailbreaking. That passion that he wrote with despite how depressing parts of that post were is the same passion that keeps me coming back to IDB. The jailbreak community is really an awesome community.

  • Niclas

    Just as a tip, let ios/your browser read the article to you (it’s long).

    Enable text to speach in accessibility on ios.

  • Anthony Nguyen

    I grew a full Saurik beard while I was reading that. But to be honest though I think the iMods store looks likes it have a lot potential that users want, but it’s going to be a big failure like other alternative Cydia stores. Saurik explained this in Reddit and here on iDB about things about rating systems and complete redesign of Cydia that it won’t work out at all.

  • Andy

    I would love to hear a developer’s point of view on this issue. Any developers here kind enough to share your thoughts with us?

  • Repositories could have added a rating system themselves. They could even work up a global API to share such information with the likes of Cydia or another repository. Question is, why haven’t they done it yet? Because they understand the reasons why it’s not the best of ideas. And if you don’t believe me, email/tweet ModMyI, TheBigBoss, etc. Stop trying to put the blame on Cydia (saurik) itself.

    Put that in your tea and drink it.

    • I do believe one or two repos trialled it in the past and came to the conclusion that it just doesn’t work.

      • My point exactly! Didn’t know that they tried it though. Just more proof that the community doesn’t know what it wants (with limits).

    • RarestName

      The comment section for this post is a disaster…

      I’ll pretend that those other comments don’t exist.

  • Tommy Gumbs

    He could of said more with a lot less than 15k words. All I needed to read was the section titles. That was all I needed. Cydia is the best we have, but not the best we could have. This guy is not the Steve Jobs of Jailbreaking. His power lies in the lemmings that lets him continue to do as he pleases. Perhaps this is why we now have a Pangu Jailbreak instead of evaders, etc, etc.

    • Hasan Choudhury

      Thank god he is not the steve jobs of jailbreaking because steve was a greedy old man. SJ wanted to share his inventions (well that were made by his engineers and not himself) but profit from it like nobodies business. Saurik on the otherhand….gave it all for free!

      • Tommy Gumbs

        Free??? Don’t believe the hype. Nobody writes 15000 words for free. And, greed is not always associated with money. Just an FYI

      • SkyFall

        Steve Jobs was definitely not a greedy old man. Steve Jobs was an innovator and a perfectionist and being an innovator differs from being greedy. Thanks to him GUI and Mouse are used today (he saw these features had a future when the others thought having GUI was unprofessional and childish and didn’t not like the mouse cause of its name). If he was greedy he wouldn’t have been kicked out of Apple. If he was greedy when he came back at Apple he would demand to be paid, but instead he basically saved Apple from bankruptcy for free. Also of course his ideas would be made real by other people since SJ didn’t know how to code.

  • Getoffsauriksdick

    Ya’ll people are all up on Saurik’s dick. Let this nigga breathe, goddamn.

  • Danial

    Can someone tell me summary of that long Essay or a link ? pls

    • Getoffsauriksdick

      Bruh no one here gon’ do it

      • Danial

        I saw his post on reddit too but im not in the mood to read that big essay

    • Mgggb

      Cydia works, and since jail breaking won’t be around forever, you should stick with it rather than get attached to something else. If we all work together as a community, we can focus on important things rather than where we install them from. I don’t want to compete because it is a waste of time, but if you force me to, I will pull out all the stops and bury you.

    • Mgggb

      His essay is not that long and pretty well written. It won’t take you more than 30 min to read. It’s worth it

  • udovoodoo

    I’d stick with Cydia regardless of the competition. It has historically been a very stable platform for me.
    Whatever you think of Saurik and his douchey(let’s be honest here..) essay, he’s damn good at what he does and his track record towers most.
    Whatever the case may be, the priest look is just not working out for Saurik’s aesthetics.

  • ✦ intelligent anomaly ✦

    What I gather from the essay is Saurik is afraid of losing his Cydia revenue stream to a competitor. Despite what others think, Cydia does make money, and it is not from ads. Saurik gets a commission from every paid app, much like other app stores which is needed to pay for the servers. Competition drives innovation, and is needed because if Cydia ever dies out with Saurik pulling the plug, we are all up $hit creek. We need one or two other viable alternatives to keep the community alive.

  • Damian

    He did not try to convince anyone he was just saying that it takes a huge resources to maintain a reliable servers like Cydia has.

    He was simply saying that all those people who try to jump on this train don’t even know what to expect next. Once they face it they disappear together with their alternative stores

    • Exactly. Others have tried before and failed before and the same will likely happen again without a serious amount of time, effort and money because like it or not all of those things are needed to develop and maintain something as great as Cydia.

  • David Villamizar

    We don’t need a new store, we need a new UI for Cydia, just a new look that is easier for jailbreak noobs, or maybe just a visual tutorial to get started with Cydia.

    For new jailbreakers it’s a pain in the ass to use Cydia, 3 years ago I was asking myself WTF are repos? Some people don’t want to search the web for hours just to get info on how to use store application.

    We could have two front ends, one for not-so-geeky users, and a keep Cydia for the most experienced part. We could ask at setup how experienced you are with jailbreak, and given a beginner answer, lead the user to the easier to use front end, once he feels the need for more sources and more control (maybe after a week) we could tell him to try Cydia for more functionality.

  • Hasan Choudhury

    I think this iMod is nothing but a few immature kids sitting together and designing a front end based on fad (google) design and sharing it to get some popularity and also in hopes of duping some developers. They surveyed University of who-knows, random and found their holy grail? Get real….that project is bound to fall apart before iOS8 JB is released. Saurik just relax brah….chill down and enjoy the fireworks.

    • SkyFall

      Ok so what’s wrong with people wanting a better user experience? Is it bad that some people want to help new jailbreakers to find the tweaks they need easier? The design of iMod is really nice and consistent, something Cydia isn’t. Sure Cydia has gotten some nice updates but the UI sucks. Good tweaks are overshadowed by crappy tunes, lockscreen themes etc… Also why do you underestimate them? History has proven that after a while some people come that do the same thing but better. In addition this new store could finally be the right motivation to make Saurik finally make Cydia have a better UI. Just because they are bringing a new Store it doesn’t make them immature kids. Earth has over 7 billion people, do you honestly believe Saurik is the only one who can provide a jailbreak store?

  • Niclas

    You should have paraphrased him, here’s a article that does:

    http://bit. ly/U4jUdZ

  • Tony

    http://www.imods.co/blog/responses/imods-response-to-saurik/

    Should be posted as an article on here since they did so for Saurik, it’s fair.

  • CAS

    It dosent matter how great the UI of imods is (although I dont like it) Cydia is made with the ideals of jailbreaking, iMods is made with the idea of making money.

  • Heru Alkebu-lan

    When I first heard about Sorek’s essay on competition my
    attention was drawn to his closing remarks which in my opinion was a not so
    veiled threat toabandon the jailbreak community and to take his tools and
    resources with him rather than feeling compelled to compete with others. My
    initial reaction to these comments was invisioning the spoiled kid on the block
    who owned the football and would threaten to shut the game down; take his ball
    and go if folks didn’t play by his rules. Needless to say, after having taken
    the time to read Sorek’s perspectives in their entirety, I concluded that he did
    indeed present a compelling argumentin support of his opinion. Additionally, I was intrigued by the peek
    into his mind and the levels of complexity involved in the day to day
    development and management of Cydia from a behind the scenes vantage point. Though I don’t agree with everything Sorek
    wrote, I must admit that I found his honesty and the fact he had the balls to
    put it out there like that knowing all too well that such an opinion from
    someone of his stature within the jailbreak community would most certainly generate a substantial degree
    of controversy, oddly refreshing.

    I believe that most of the controversy centers around the differences
    between theory and practice.
    Theoretically I could agree with Sorek’s notion that a more egalitarian
    business model might be more condusive to creativity and innovation. The stark reality though is that the practice
    of capitalism is rooted in competitiveness and that its absence is monopoly. Consequently,
    though both paradigms have their challenges, based on my own comparision of their
    histories, I’d much rather prefer the former over the latter.

    Though I can admit that my perspective as an end user of
    Cydia services may be considered somewhat myopic, I must admit that the thought
    of the fate of the jailbreak community resting in the hands of one individual’s
    capacity to manage their stress levels is somewhat disturbing. Ultimately, while
    such a suggestion as a rationale for taking such action does elicit some
    empathy and insight, it also causes me to conclude that competition (though
    stressful at times) is best equipped to serve as a contingency plan in the
    event that such a tragedy were to occur.